December 6th
The reach of fractions continues to surprise me. In the past week inquiries from a Manhattan area golf and residential community, a luxe hotel in Miami expanding to CO ski and Manhattan, a fancy golf course outside of Denver, the best located of all Santa Fe deals and a couple of left-fielders from Panama! Those are just the calls I got to return.
Mac MacEwan, our marketing guru, and I are advising a nifty project in Hyannis, Cape Cod. No, it's not the windmill farm that the Kennedys are so excited about, but a full service, amenity-rich resort hotel property expanding into fractions. It's great to work with, in this case, entrepreneurs, who 'get it' and are on the move.
A new destination spa, major water park, and beach house are being added to go along with the current amenities. The beach house, right on the beach, and not inexpensive to say the least brings this project to the ocean. A shuttle will take owners to Hyannis for shopping and to the private beaches [owners only] that surround Hyannis. As this is a fee product the owners are, well, owners. Only in Hyannis, where the Kenneyds preach for the little guy can there be private beaches! So says a California guy, were we are proud to share our beaches with any bum that comes by!
15 fractional condos will be built on top of hotel wings [259 room resort hotel] and on top of the destination spa building, two and three bedrooms, lock-offs, robust rental program and fully leveraged HOA budget with all hotel personnel and services right there. The one missing spot right now is the fractional experienced sales director for a February soft opening.
Mike Bosch, our advisory team leader, and I have finished a stint in Atlantic City for a luxury condo tower that chose not to sell the top floor units so it can have a fractional project. Atlantic City? Yup. Only $11 billion going into new development on top of the $11 billion already invested. As they have seen the regional [Indian] casinos take away a lot of the day business they are transforming themselves into more of a Vegas, destination location.
Morgan Stanley's gaming company has launched a 3900-room hotel and when it is 'all in' the tab will be $2.5 billion, not to mention the new MGM Grand and a deck of others. Atlantic City is a happening place. . A new, twice-a-day train from Penn Station will begin this summer.
There are some 50 fractional condos, 1/6th shares, eventually. All amenities are in and in the building, and of course Atlantic City is the big amenity. There's a need for a sales director here, too. The good news is that the developer is very experienced in PA and well-established in Atlantic City.
Star is launching its 'Star Sales Education Center' in January. It's purpose is to inculcate the Star-way of selling to our new sales directors and sales teams, and not loose our grasp on how we have grown up with the fractional selling business.
Friday, December 07, 2007
Wednesday, November 14, 2007
Carl's November Blog
Notes from the Star front lines:
•At Snowbird, going into our second, selling season we are really set up. What a difference it makes - start-up one year to 'roll-out'' in year two. Great developers, great sales team and wonderful buyers!
•Vallarta Gardens in Puerta Vallarta just the opposite; the jumble of tasks for a start up getting into sales - a full time job for five, but handled expertly by Ron Frank and Ash Offermann from Star.
•Finishing the main selling season at Meriwether in Montana, owner occupancy of homes, adding operations to sales, and if initial owner users are indicators - the project's a winner.
•Success story or is it genetic? Josh, son of Sherman Potvin, sales exec extraordinary with Ritz and others, came to Meriwether as 'green 'pea' last December and this November he's the #1 salesperson and just escrowed a three-lot purchase in addition to all his fractional sales! We think it's our sales education program designed by Ron Frank. What's say, Sherman?
ULI's annual conference held last month in Vegas at the Venetian. My question: how big is too big for Vegas hotels…how many towers do there need to be and how long a trek is long to get to your room and back to the conference center? That aside - Recreational Development Council day focused on Lake Las Vegas a star-crossed development now 20 years in the making. From our discussions beyond Lake LV:
•The sub-prime crises and the availability of development money is affecting community developers not unexpectedly. The niche players with well located projects or the fractional guys continue to sell well. No 'crisis' in sight for them. As a couple of Council members said, 'We're in an emotional recession".
•Responses to developer's laments on slow moving inventory - get out there and sell the product! The order taking years are over! That's not news to those of us in the shared ownership business as we've always been advancing our shared products, and have sharply honed sales skills.
•Great presentation by Jim Taylor of Harrison Group on wealth in America and how that relates to buying vacation homes. Some of his points:
•Most of the wealth today has been accumulated in the past 15 years.
•The wealthy today have come from the middle class and retain many of
those values
•Discretionary income above $25k per year is the real, target for our
business, and families with discretionary income of over $125k and
up to $499k either own fractions at a good percentage and/or
plan to buy them at a higher rate than a wholly owned home. Over
$500k the percentages flip back to the fully owned home.
•Plumtv.com….if you have to ask…no, seriously a web site for selected,
mega wealthy resort areas that tells owners what's happening, so
they can plan before their arrival. And, in these towns when they do
arrive, in season, they take over the place. Think Nantucket, Sun
Valley, Aspen, etc.
•Auctions for failed fractional projects? I've seen two so far…in Santa Barbara and Big Bear CA. Both filed - do we call that 'failed squared'? Why, beats me, but common sense would say that the buying public is not yet aware enough to jump on these deals. Or, the stigma of a failed deal and how will owner services be provided and the HOA costs, etc?
Notes from the Star front lines:
•At Snowbird, going into our second, selling season we are really set up. What a difference it makes - start-up one year to 'roll-out'' in year two. Great developers, great sales team and wonderful buyers!
•Vallarta Gardens in Puerta Vallarta just the opposite; the jumble of tasks for a start up getting into sales - a full time job for five, but handled expertly by Ron Frank and Ash Offermann from Star.
•Finishing the main selling season at Meriwether in Montana, owner occupancy of homes, adding operations to sales, and if initial owner users are indicators - the project's a winner.
•Success story or is it genetic? Josh, son of Sherman Potvin, sales exec extraordinary with Ritz and others, came to Meriwether as 'green 'pea' last December and this November he's the #1 salesperson and just escrowed a three-lot purchase in addition to all his fractional sales! We think it's our sales education program designed by Ron Frank. What's say, Sherman?
ULI's annual conference held last month in Vegas at the Venetian. My question: how big is too big for Vegas hotels…how many towers do there need to be and how long a trek is long to get to your room and back to the conference center? That aside - Recreational Development Council day focused on Lake Las Vegas a star-crossed development now 20 years in the making. From our discussions beyond Lake LV:
•The sub-prime crises and the availability of development money is affecting community developers not unexpectedly. The niche players with well located projects or the fractional guys continue to sell well. No 'crisis' in sight for them. As a couple of Council members said, 'We're in an emotional recession".
•Responses to developer's laments on slow moving inventory - get out there and sell the product! The order taking years are over! That's not news to those of us in the shared ownership business as we've always been advancing our shared products, and have sharply honed sales skills.
•Great presentation by Jim Taylor of Harrison Group on wealth in America and how that relates to buying vacation homes. Some of his points:
•Most of the wealth today has been accumulated in the past 15 years.
•The wealthy today have come from the middle class and retain many of
those values
•Discretionary income above $25k per year is the real, target for our
business, and families with discretionary income of over $125k and
up to $499k either own fractions at a good percentage and/or
plan to buy them at a higher rate than a wholly owned home. Over
$500k the percentages flip back to the fully owned home.
•Plumtv.com….if you have to ask…no, seriously a web site for selected,
mega wealthy resort areas that tells owners what's happening, so
they can plan before their arrival. And, in these towns when they do
arrive, in season, they take over the place. Think Nantucket, Sun
Valley, Aspen, etc.
•Auctions for failed fractional projects? I've seen two so far…in Santa Barbara and Big Bear CA. Both filed - do we call that 'failed squared'? Why, beats me, but common sense would say that the buying public is not yet aware enough to jump on these deals. Or, the stigma of a failed deal and how will owner services be provided and the HOA costs, etc?
Friday, September 28, 2007
October 2007
Hawai'i Fractions:
Just back from the second, Ragatz/Pacific Rim/Trans Pacific Mortgage Hawaii seminar on fractions. Following their July seminar Pacific Rim and Trans Pacific are committed to educating the Hawaii market to fractions, so as the offerings grow they will grow with intelligent development, marketing and sales.
The one, very major impediment to a fast start to projects is the exemption for six interests or less, but use has to be for sixty consecutive days. So, sell two, fixed 60-day periods, sell two, rotating sixty-day periods, but sixty days it must be. Owners, however, can internally trade within those blocks of time, but that ability to trade can't be a material part of the offering. This probably rules out 70% of the easy market for sales.
Registration under the timeshare act is occurring with a few projects and more need to come along, so use plans can be designed commensurate with a broader market demand.
Dick Ragatz, as usual, gave a compressive update on the fractional business and it's explosive growth.
The One-Off House
Old Republic Mortgage has a database of some 40 one-off houses being offered as fractions on the 1/6 exemption basis. So that's 240 potential sales. They list 15 in escrow.
Dick Ragatz will have a pronouncement on this one-off product by or at his upcoming March conference. But in the meantime my take is that while some of these houses in the $10-14 million dollar category, so shares are being sold in the $2.5 to $3 million range; others are in the $85,000 range, and all in between; the systemic problem is post-sale management. Who's going to provide and at what price? Some buyers may be okay with standard property management services, but the upper-end will need the specialized and dedicated service that only a 'project' can offer. So, whadda 'ya do?
•Snowbird's Night in New York event was two weeks ago, and over 250 showed up in midtown on a weekday night! Real loyalty. Our sales team met with all reservation holders in that market, naturally, to secure their deals.
•Up at Meriwether Ranch Josh Potvin, Sherman's son, has emerged as our top salesperson for 2007. Congrats.
• Also at Meriwether Dede Bacon, fresh from her excellent results at Kirkwood, has been filling in, to meet mini vac demand, this fall. She has, naturally, snagged her share of sales. Thanks, Dede!
•At Vallarta Gardens, in PV, Ron Frank, Mac MacEwan and Ash Offermann are moving ahead to get that project structured for fractions, amenitized, marketed and set-up for sales. Fortunately, the project's location, on the Bay of Banderas, is exploding, so opportunies are now available for local lead generation programs.
•Star has sold the Nautical Inn, Lake Havasu, to its investor group on a pre-arranged purchase agreement. So, we are out of the muscle-boat business.
And, out of the condo-hotel and timeshare businesses, too.
When does Mel Grant's fractional exchange company open up?
Hawai'i Fractions:
Just back from the second, Ragatz/Pacific Rim/Trans Pacific Mortgage Hawaii seminar on fractions. Following their July seminar Pacific Rim and Trans Pacific are committed to educating the Hawaii market to fractions, so as the offerings grow they will grow with intelligent development, marketing and sales.
The one, very major impediment to a fast start to projects is the exemption for six interests or less, but use has to be for sixty consecutive days. So, sell two, fixed 60-day periods, sell two, rotating sixty-day periods, but sixty days it must be. Owners, however, can internally trade within those blocks of time, but that ability to trade can't be a material part of the offering. This probably rules out 70% of the easy market for sales.
Registration under the timeshare act is occurring with a few projects and more need to come along, so use plans can be designed commensurate with a broader market demand.
Dick Ragatz, as usual, gave a compressive update on the fractional business and it's explosive growth.
The One-Off House
Old Republic Mortgage has a database of some 40 one-off houses being offered as fractions on the 1/6 exemption basis. So that's 240 potential sales. They list 15 in escrow.
Dick Ragatz will have a pronouncement on this one-off product by or at his upcoming March conference. But in the meantime my take is that while some of these houses in the $10-14 million dollar category, so shares are being sold in the $2.5 to $3 million range; others are in the $85,000 range, and all in between; the systemic problem is post-sale management. Who's going to provide and at what price? Some buyers may be okay with standard property management services, but the upper-end will need the specialized and dedicated service that only a 'project' can offer. So, whadda 'ya do?
•Snowbird's Night in New York event was two weeks ago, and over 250 showed up in midtown on a weekday night! Real loyalty. Our sales team met with all reservation holders in that market, naturally, to secure their deals.
•Up at Meriwether Ranch Josh Potvin, Sherman's son, has emerged as our top salesperson for 2007. Congrats.
• Also at Meriwether Dede Bacon, fresh from her excellent results at Kirkwood, has been filling in, to meet mini vac demand, this fall. She has, naturally, snagged her share of sales. Thanks, Dede!
•At Vallarta Gardens, in PV, Ron Frank, Mac MacEwan and Ash Offermann are moving ahead to get that project structured for fractions, amenitized, marketed and set-up for sales. Fortunately, the project's location, on the Bay of Banderas, is exploding, so opportunies are now available for local lead generation programs.
•Star has sold the Nautical Inn, Lake Havasu, to its investor group on a pre-arranged purchase agreement. So, we are out of the muscle-boat business.
And, out of the condo-hotel and timeshare businesses, too.
When does Mel Grant's fractional exchange company open up?
Sunday, September 16, 2007
Rolling into the fall from a busy summer…at Mt. Superior Club - Snowbird, Dave Ruff, our new sales manager has made superb progress getting solid on our reservations, thereby getting to the next price levels and preparing for the “Snowbird Comes to Big Apple” event.
Mt. Superior also released a handful of whole units with one being snapped up at $3.3 million and two others in process.
Dave is backed up by Ash Offermann, and he in turn by the crack Snowbird resort team of Bob Bonar, Tom Jones and Jerry Giles. The NYC event has over 400 respondents, so far and that means the sales team will be very, very busy.
Trans-Pacific Bank is sponsoring a second Ragatz one-dayer on September 27th. in Honolulu. This follows their successful seminar in July. The invited guests here will be realtors. I have the opportunity to speak, again, on marketing and sales. It will be interesting to see how the real estate community responds, and to if they really want to make a business out of fractions in the Islands. Certainly, all indicators are that fractions are ’made’ for Hawaii.
Destination Clubs…the Wall Street Journal had an article last week about consolidation and self-regulation. I wonder what Steve Peterson, who heads the ARDA club regulatory group, will have to say about ‘their’ view on regulation vs. what the hurdles shared ownership industry has to jump over. Not one mention of Exclusive in the article, so congrats to them for keeping their head down.
Back from Croatia and their Dalmatian Coast on the Adriatic Sea. Just gorgeous water and weather, and great hiking on the islands. One RCI sign for a resort. Now that Croatia is on the other side of the war development money is pouring in from all over Europe, and vacation villas are everywhere, so fractions will follow at the appropriate time for the European market. It’s a long commute from the US.
August was my opportunity to join the ranks of ‘air service does not work’ in America team. All four segments from Kalispell to Providence and back to SFO either did not go or did not work to any timeframe that was expected. Hell, I got to Croatia faster than I got from Rhode Island to San Francisco!
Mt. Superior also released a handful of whole units with one being snapped up at $3.3 million and two others in process.
Dave is backed up by Ash Offermann, and he in turn by the crack Snowbird resort team of Bob Bonar, Tom Jones and Jerry Giles. The NYC event has over 400 respondents, so far and that means the sales team will be very, very busy.
Trans-Pacific Bank is sponsoring a second Ragatz one-dayer on September 27th. in Honolulu. This follows their successful seminar in July. The invited guests here will be realtors. I have the opportunity to speak, again, on marketing and sales. It will be interesting to see how the real estate community responds, and to if they really want to make a business out of fractions in the Islands. Certainly, all indicators are that fractions are ’made’ for Hawaii.
Destination Clubs…the Wall Street Journal had an article last week about consolidation and self-regulation. I wonder what Steve Peterson, who heads the ARDA club regulatory group, will have to say about ‘their’ view on regulation vs. what the hurdles shared ownership industry has to jump over. Not one mention of Exclusive in the article, so congrats to them for keeping their head down.
Back from Croatia and their Dalmatian Coast on the Adriatic Sea. Just gorgeous water and weather, and great hiking on the islands. One RCI sign for a resort. Now that Croatia is on the other side of the war development money is pouring in from all over Europe, and vacation villas are everywhere, so fractions will follow at the appropriate time for the European market. It’s a long commute from the US.
August was my opportunity to join the ranks of ‘air service does not work’ in America team. All four segments from Kalispell to Providence and back to SFO either did not go or did not work to any timeframe that was expected. Hell, I got to Croatia faster than I got from Rhode Island to San Francisco!
Monday, July 23, 2007
July 23, 2007
Just returned from Hawaii's first fractional seminar sponsored by Pacific Rim Bank, ResortQuest Hawaii and TransPacific Mortgage. Dick Ragatz put on the daylong program. Invited attendees numbered about 75 plus some local speakers notably market-maker lawyers Charlie Pear and Steve Lee.
Coming down from the Mainland in addition to Dick and Tracy Ragatz: Art Spaulding on legal issues, Steve Dering on marketing in general, Jim Beckham and myself on implementing marketing, sales and HOA budgeting, and Tom LaTour on hospitality management.
The 'big boys' have yet to move into fractions on the Islands. It's a matter of time. The business there is getting started, which as usual for a new product, involves small developments or 'one off' homes of which there are by some count 30 or 40 being offered in one from or another. Most of these will go nowhere.
Due to the convolutions of Hawaii real estate law and timeshare being managed by the consumer affairs department a 'stand-up' fractional project, registered as timeshare [as we do up here] needs to be in a transient or hotel zone.
The other option is to offer the fraction under the registration minimum, which means a 1/6th interest. To complicate the immediate future; the regulators apparently have attempted to better define what 60 day use means, and have come up, so it looks, with a 60 consecutive day stay. That's not workable for a fractional, so there's work being done to clear up the definition. Hawaii's a 'small town' when it comes to real estate development, and with the rough-shod past of timesharing there is a knee jerk reaction, by many, to any shared ownership product.
Due to whole unit pricing in the Islands fractions will become a big business - it's as natural as fractions in Aspen, Vail or other steroid-driven home priced areas.
For me it was a sweet homecoming of sorts. In the early 70s, when we aggregated the condo rental inventory and brought it to the lower 48 in association with United 'Airlines, we had offices on each, major island and Mainland offices in San Francisco, LA, Denver, Chicago and New York.
We sold that company to join a Hyatt subsidiary, and that resulted in the World's first fee timeshare at Brockway Springs, Lake Tahoe CA.
I've been back to Hawaii as a visitor since, naturally. If find it kind of amazing that there are not only business associates from that period still there, and how great to see them, but some of the same old haunts. Dinner at Huggos, over the water, in Kailua was and still is a treat.
Dick Ragatz will repeat next year.
Just returned from Hawaii's first fractional seminar sponsored by Pacific Rim Bank, ResortQuest Hawaii and TransPacific Mortgage. Dick Ragatz put on the daylong program. Invited attendees numbered about 75 plus some local speakers notably market-maker lawyers Charlie Pear and Steve Lee.
Coming down from the Mainland in addition to Dick and Tracy Ragatz: Art Spaulding on legal issues, Steve Dering on marketing in general, Jim Beckham and myself on implementing marketing, sales and HOA budgeting, and Tom LaTour on hospitality management.
The 'big boys' have yet to move into fractions on the Islands. It's a matter of time. The business there is getting started, which as usual for a new product, involves small developments or 'one off' homes of which there are by some count 30 or 40 being offered in one from or another. Most of these will go nowhere.
Due to the convolutions of Hawaii real estate law and timeshare being managed by the consumer affairs department a 'stand-up' fractional project, registered as timeshare [as we do up here] needs to be in a transient or hotel zone.
The other option is to offer the fraction under the registration minimum, which means a 1/6th interest. To complicate the immediate future; the regulators apparently have attempted to better define what 60 day use means, and have come up, so it looks, with a 60 consecutive day stay. That's not workable for a fractional, so there's work being done to clear up the definition. Hawaii's a 'small town' when it comes to real estate development, and with the rough-shod past of timesharing there is a knee jerk reaction, by many, to any shared ownership product.
Due to whole unit pricing in the Islands fractions will become a big business - it's as natural as fractions in Aspen, Vail or other steroid-driven home priced areas.
For me it was a sweet homecoming of sorts. In the early 70s, when we aggregated the condo rental inventory and brought it to the lower 48 in association with United 'Airlines, we had offices on each, major island and Mainland offices in San Francisco, LA, Denver, Chicago and New York.
We sold that company to join a Hyatt subsidiary, and that resulted in the World's first fee timeshare at Brockway Springs, Lake Tahoe CA.
I've been back to Hawaii as a visitor since, naturally. If find it kind of amazing that there are not only business associates from that period still there, and how great to see them, but some of the same old haunts. Dinner at Huggos, over the water, in Kailua was and still is a treat.
Dick Ragatz will repeat next year.
Friday, June 22, 2007
June 22, 2007
Star execs just completed their annual retreat, taking a breath after the ski season and before the summer season gets into full swing. It was held at my Montana home in the Flathead Valley. Rain for a day and a half and glorious sun for the other day and a half.
Again, we wondered at the myriad of 'deals' throughout the USA and Mexico. Last month I mentioned how Hawaii and Mexico seemed to come alive, and that has not abated.
Our Mike Bosch just completed an advisory assignment for two sites on the Black Sea in Russia. He reports that Moscow, other than being the most expensive city in the World now, is a very hip place with cell phones on every ear and the under 40 crowd crowded into very European-type bars and restaurants.
Anyone want to go over there to sell? Heck, after Pat Hanes went to Dubai…who knows?
On the move…
Dave Ruff has joined us as sales director for Mt. Superior Residence Club in Snowbird as Bill Orwig has flown the mountains for the Caribbean. Dave has worked with Ron Frank for a decade and is cut from the same mold.
Also on the move, from our Kirkwood sales team, Melisa Maxey has moved into a lead generation role for most of our projects. Suzanne Heron continues her lead generation work. Both are doing a superlative job.
And, back on the Snowbird front, Bill Raddinger, has joined our sales team bringing the team members to three.
Also, up at Meriwether Ranch Teri Walsh is now the GM for the HOAs. Teri, a butte native, wife to the Sheriff [no foolin' around up there!] came to us with a broad range of hotel management experiences.
And, Rebecca Ramsey is our sales administrator for Meriwether plus outdoor expert first class. Her husband makes those $3000 fishing rods we read about now and then.
www.residentialcrusieline.com is the place to go for a very exciting fractional product. Unlike other cruise ships, like The World, which is a retirement residence that floats, Magellan is a Vegas on the water with really mainstream pricing for fractions. Randy Jackson, the 'developer' is the sales program on the move. What to participate? Contact me.
Star execs just completed their annual retreat, taking a breath after the ski season and before the summer season gets into full swing. It was held at my Montana home in the Flathead Valley. Rain for a day and a half and glorious sun for the other day and a half.
Again, we wondered at the myriad of 'deals' throughout the USA and Mexico. Last month I mentioned how Hawaii and Mexico seemed to come alive, and that has not abated.
Our Mike Bosch just completed an advisory assignment for two sites on the Black Sea in Russia. He reports that Moscow, other than being the most expensive city in the World now, is a very hip place with cell phones on every ear and the under 40 crowd crowded into very European-type bars and restaurants.
Anyone want to go over there to sell? Heck, after Pat Hanes went to Dubai…who knows?
On the move…
Dave Ruff has joined us as sales director for Mt. Superior Residence Club in Snowbird as Bill Orwig has flown the mountains for the Caribbean. Dave has worked with Ron Frank for a decade and is cut from the same mold.
Also on the move, from our Kirkwood sales team, Melisa Maxey has moved into a lead generation role for most of our projects. Suzanne Heron continues her lead generation work. Both are doing a superlative job.
And, back on the Snowbird front, Bill Raddinger, has joined our sales team bringing the team members to three.
Also, up at Meriwether Ranch Teri Walsh is now the GM for the HOAs. Teri, a butte native, wife to the Sheriff [no foolin' around up there!] came to us with a broad range of hotel management experiences.
And, Rebecca Ramsey is our sales administrator for Meriwether plus outdoor expert first class. Her husband makes those $3000 fishing rods we read about now and then.
www.residentialcrusieline.com is the place to go for a very exciting fractional product. Unlike other cruise ships, like The World, which is a retirement residence that floats, Magellan is a Vegas on the water with really mainstream pricing for fractions. Randy Jackson, the 'developer' is the sales program on the move. What to participate? Contact me.
Wednesday, May 23, 2007
Fraction homes preceded jets, but jet shares got all the attention in the 90s as vacation-home fractions were defining themselves and picking up speed.
We now know that all types of property are being fractionalized: jewelry, cars, boats and the like.
So, it's not surprising that cruise ships are next. I spent an engaging afternoon with Randy Jackson, CEO of Residential Cruise Line and owner of the soon-to-be" keeled" Magellan a 860 foot, 15 deck vessel with 210 private residences sold both on a whole, fractional and club basis. Makes that other ship look like a shrimp!
The whole units go from $1.8 to over $7 million.
The fractions, for a month, range from $275,000 to $585,000 with annual fees from $9,500 to $20,000. Both sales and dues are certainly in the sweet spot for fractional products.
There's also a Club Membership for two weeks a year, floating unit, from $90k to $315k with dues from $4,000 to $10,000, which seems like pretty good deal. Matter of fact both the fractions and the clubs are both priced attractively.
www.residencecruiseline.com
Back to Randy…he's planned for some time to wed real estate, as he's a developer, to travel, cruising, aviation and high-styled amenity-action in one product. Sales so far, introductory level, are more fractions than whole units as one might expect, but, and here's the BUT, prospects are calling FOR the fractions! Sought good? Do those delicious words ring a bell?
A thought; is the fractional tipping point approaching? We've seen evidence over the past few months, not only with Magellan, but in many resort markets, that buyers are seeking out the product, and also those illusive real estate brokers may be coming around. Too good to be true? We'll see.
What part have the destination clubs played if the point is tipping? I don't know, but there is confusion out in the market place between the two products that may help both in the midterm period.
Lots of Hawaii calls recently….coming alive down there?
We now know that all types of property are being fractionalized: jewelry, cars, boats and the like.
So, it's not surprising that cruise ships are next. I spent an engaging afternoon with Randy Jackson, CEO of Residential Cruise Line and owner of the soon-to-be" keeled" Magellan a 860 foot, 15 deck vessel with 210 private residences sold both on a whole, fractional and club basis. Makes that other ship look like a shrimp!
The whole units go from $1.8 to over $7 million.
The fractions, for a month, range from $275,000 to $585,000 with annual fees from $9,500 to $20,000. Both sales and dues are certainly in the sweet spot for fractional products.
There's also a Club Membership for two weeks a year, floating unit, from $90k to $315k with dues from $4,000 to $10,000, which seems like pretty good deal. Matter of fact both the fractions and the clubs are both priced attractively.
www.residencecruiseline.com
Back to Randy…he's planned for some time to wed real estate, as he's a developer, to travel, cruising, aviation and high-styled amenity-action in one product. Sales so far, introductory level, are more fractions than whole units as one might expect, but, and here's the BUT, prospects are calling FOR the fractions! Sought good? Do those delicious words ring a bell?
A thought; is the fractional tipping point approaching? We've seen evidence over the past few months, not only with Magellan, but in many resort markets, that buyers are seeking out the product, and also those illusive real estate brokers may be coming around. Too good to be true? We'll see.
What part have the destination clubs played if the point is tipping? I don't know, but there is confusion out in the market place between the two products that may help both in the midterm period.
Lots of Hawaii calls recently….coming alive down there?
Monday, May 14, 2007
Just back from ULI's Council meeting in Chicago, and the four Recreational Development flights.
I was joined by other Star execs: Ron Frank and Ash Offermann and key alliance-guy Chirs Tivey he of Gravity.
Many old friends of 25 years including Bob Miller or Marriott, Ed McMullen, Sr. of hisself, Ed Spears among them.
Bob Miller recounted, yet again, his total praise of Howard Nusbaum as CEO or ARDA, and the job he has done to bring ARDA into the very mainstream of real estate lobbying groups. And, that the timeshare homeowner's PAC now raises some $3.5 million a year from $2 and $3 voluntary contributions from owners. Bob thought it up and Lynn Weas has been the honcho to bring it from pennies to multi millions.
The glamour side of the Rec Development function: Toni Alexander, as usual, lookin' LA great and Bryadyn Criswell 7 months PG, and looking very good, too. I can’t say as much for the ‘guys’ but I will state this: after Bob Miller and Ed McMullen, Sr showed up tieless for both Wednesday PM and all day Friday I sure has heck am not wearing mine next year
I was lamenting that we had not figured out how to sell fractions on an ‘event basis’ vs. tempo sales. Well, Randal Bone just opened up my thoughts with his Toscana experiences in selling, and how they 'evented' their way through the project by selling use vs. investment. Good stuff. Back to the drawing board, Carl.
As usual,, Mary Borgia, Red Flight Chair did a masterful job of programming and keeping the flight on track including that e mail sent at 3:45AM on the bus schedule!
Mary constructed a wonderful day of interactivity between members of the Red Flight that included round tables and panel discussions covering the whole spectrum of resort development and finance.
The Red Flight has such talented members. It's always a humbling experience to attend and learn. Sure, I've got the fractional side covered, but being a specialist of sorts can sometimes lead me to have tunnel vision. I certainly come away with my eyes wide.
I was joined by other Star execs: Ron Frank and Ash Offermann and key alliance-guy Chirs Tivey he of Gravity.
Many old friends of 25 years including Bob Miller or Marriott, Ed McMullen, Sr. of hisself, Ed Spears among them.
Bob Miller recounted, yet again, his total praise of Howard Nusbaum as CEO or ARDA, and the job he has done to bring ARDA into the very mainstream of real estate lobbying groups. And, that the timeshare homeowner's PAC now raises some $3.5 million a year from $2 and $3 voluntary contributions from owners. Bob thought it up and Lynn Weas has been the honcho to bring it from pennies to multi millions.
The glamour side of the Rec Development function: Toni Alexander, as usual, lookin' LA great and Bryadyn Criswell 7 months PG, and looking very good, too. I can’t say as much for the ‘guys’ but I will state this: after Bob Miller and Ed McMullen, Sr showed up tieless for both Wednesday PM and all day Friday I sure has heck am not wearing mine next year
I was lamenting that we had not figured out how to sell fractions on an ‘event basis’ vs. tempo sales. Well, Randal Bone just opened up my thoughts with his Toscana experiences in selling, and how they 'evented' their way through the project by selling use vs. investment. Good stuff. Back to the drawing board, Carl.
As usual,, Mary Borgia, Red Flight Chair did a masterful job of programming and keeping the flight on track including that e mail sent at 3:45AM on the bus schedule!
Mary constructed a wonderful day of interactivity between members of the Red Flight that included round tables and panel discussions covering the whole spectrum of resort development and finance.
The Red Flight has such talented members. It's always a humbling experience to attend and learn. Sure, I've got the fractional side covered, but being a specialist of sorts can sometimes lead me to have tunnel vision. I certainly come away with my eyes wide.
Thursday, April 19, 2007
April 18th Orlando
Attending the IMN conference on fractions and destination clubs. Some interesting stuff:
•Dick Ragatz says, from the podium, that hotel companies are looking to buy into the destination club market. Hummmm
•Those darn destination club founders/CEOs/managers are continuing to admit they were flying blind [my term] when it came to understanding member services. No one home there with all the PRC and other condo management experiences? Well, at least they are paying attention, now.
•On an allied note the subject of how to define levels of service continues to come up as well it should. At SRG we chose to 'loose' a management proposal to 8050 Mammoth, some years back, by stating in the first line of our proposal that there was no 5* in fractional management. Well, there isn't. And, as one of the destination club guys said today, giving him credit, it's not about what hotels do for their ratings [AAA or Mobile], but about what the owner/member expects. Kind of common sense, but it says it well.
•Was told that forbes.com is the largest business web site - period.
More on the destination club 'guys' as they say that they are very, very referral-centric. Makes sense, but the lengths they go to - to work with their members to refer might offer some tips to PRC developers.
•Suggested to Dick Ragatz that he 'up' his price-per-square-foot definition of a PRC to above $1000, as per his stats the average is now $1800.
•Our Bill Orwig is here leading a panel on PRC sales. Chris Tivey on the marketing panel, I was on the 101 and 'stump the CEO' panel.
*Next week heading to Sioux Falls to speak at an event - extending the boundaries of fractional marketing by Jim Farmer, talented developer of Tatanka Spirit in the Black Hills. Through a selected invitation list he has designed an evening presentation on the project with the hook to 'win' a Toyota J Cruiser! We'll follow up with results.
•Then to Montana to interview the top candidates for HOA and Ranch Manager for Meriwether Ranch as the project 'opens' in June. Side note: posted jobs at Western Montana University for wranglers, drivers, housekeepers etc and nary a response. Not interested in the work, underneath them, or other opportunities?
•SRG's marketing guru, Chris Tivey, starting up his own company, Gravity. We wish him well. He's around the corner from SRG - HQ in Scottsdale, and will continue to collaborate on our projects.
•The aforementioned Jim Farmer of Tatanka Spirit won four, count 'em 4, Gold Ardys last month for project collaterals and advertising. Congrats Jim!
•Mid-tier fractions - more. You might recall that I was on an ARDA panel of this topic, and a good one it was. No sooner than finished at ARDA I was thrust into mid-tier land; Nisswa MN a few hours NE of MSP at the Grand View Lodge a family run operation since the 30s. Grand View is a fabulous, full service resort on Gull Lake. Now, they are adding 20 cabins for fractions, quarters, for this historical weekend retreat location. More as this product comes to market as it will be hit.
•Pat Hanes in Dubai? Yup, so reports Cindy Shaklee of Fairmont Heritage. Pat is sales manager of the Heritage project 'over there'. Now, that's a commute from Bigfork MT to Dubai right Cherlye? Also, Cindy reports that Fairmont announcing fractional projects, it seems, on a monthly basis. Some growth curve.
Attending the IMN conference on fractions and destination clubs. Some interesting stuff:
•Dick Ragatz says, from the podium, that hotel companies are looking to buy into the destination club market. Hummmm
•Those darn destination club founders/CEOs/managers are continuing to admit they were flying blind [my term] when it came to understanding member services. No one home there with all the PRC and other condo management experiences? Well, at least they are paying attention, now.
•On an allied note the subject of how to define levels of service continues to come up as well it should. At SRG we chose to 'loose' a management proposal to 8050 Mammoth, some years back, by stating in the first line of our proposal that there was no 5* in fractional management. Well, there isn't. And, as one of the destination club guys said today, giving him credit, it's not about what hotels do for their ratings [AAA or Mobile], but about what the owner/member expects. Kind of common sense, but it says it well.
•Was told that forbes.com is the largest business web site - period.
More on the destination club 'guys' as they say that they are very, very referral-centric. Makes sense, but the lengths they go to - to work with their members to refer might offer some tips to PRC developers.
•Suggested to Dick Ragatz that he 'up' his price-per-square-foot definition of a PRC to above $1000, as per his stats the average is now $1800.
•Our Bill Orwig is here leading a panel on PRC sales. Chris Tivey on the marketing panel, I was on the 101 and 'stump the CEO' panel.
*Next week heading to Sioux Falls to speak at an event - extending the boundaries of fractional marketing by Jim Farmer, talented developer of Tatanka Spirit in the Black Hills. Through a selected invitation list he has designed an evening presentation on the project with the hook to 'win' a Toyota J Cruiser! We'll follow up with results.
•Then to Montana to interview the top candidates for HOA and Ranch Manager for Meriwether Ranch as the project 'opens' in June. Side note: posted jobs at Western Montana University for wranglers, drivers, housekeepers etc and nary a response. Not interested in the work, underneath them, or other opportunities?
•SRG's marketing guru, Chris Tivey, starting up his own company, Gravity. We wish him well. He's around the corner from SRG - HQ in Scottsdale, and will continue to collaborate on our projects.
•The aforementioned Jim Farmer of Tatanka Spirit won four, count 'em 4, Gold Ardys last month for project collaterals and advertising. Congrats Jim!
•Mid-tier fractions - more. You might recall that I was on an ARDA panel of this topic, and a good one it was. No sooner than finished at ARDA I was thrust into mid-tier land; Nisswa MN a few hours NE of MSP at the Grand View Lodge a family run operation since the 30s. Grand View is a fabulous, full service resort on Gull Lake. Now, they are adding 20 cabins for fractions, quarters, for this historical weekend retreat location. More as this product comes to market as it will be hit.
•Pat Hanes in Dubai? Yup, so reports Cindy Shaklee of Fairmont Heritage. Pat is sales manager of the Heritage project 'over there'. Now, that's a commute from Bigfork MT to Dubai right Cherlye? Also, Cindy reports that Fairmont announcing fractional projects, it seems, on a monthly basis. Some growth curve.
Wednesday, March 28, 2007
Just back from ARDA’s convention in Orlando…it just gets bigger including the exhibition hall. There seems no end to the expenses exhibitors will go to, or maybe ARDA is just catching up other trade groups. Is there really that much money in travel certs?
I ran into two ‘old timers’ and ARDA stalwarts; Bill Ingersoll and his partner Stu Bloch. We compared our first ARDA/ALDA meetings. Stu and I were 1972 and Bill 1971, but heck, his father founded the organization! Are we in a rut or what?
Of worthy note, ARDA was at the Dolphin/Swan two years ago, and one of the bartenders swears he remembers some of us. Now, that’s an indelible impression.
Generally, the rooms are lousy, the elevators great, the concierge lousy, the food good and unlike Vegas [the other end of the alternate year switch] one can get out into the air humid as it might be.
I presented on a fractional panel dealing with mid-tier product vs. the PRC we all talk about so much. Congrats to the usually uninspired meetings committee for a very interesting topic and to John Sweeney, chair of the panel, for really excellent topics and questions. Geeze, I had to really think about what to say, which ended up in a self-serving white paper on them.
I shared the panel with Jeff Yamaguchi, ex MGM and now Global Resorts, and Dean Kneider of Intrrawest two really thoughtful pros. Dick Ragatz prodded us on as John Sweeney had a family illness and could not attend at the last minute. I think we made some sense…at least I know Jeff and Dean did.
The non-PRCs are really a fertile market and no one seems to pay much attention to them. Dick Ragatz defines them as selling for under $ik per square foot. To that I add regional locations, service levels and HOA fees to fit the buyer with family income of $150k vs. the PRC of $300k and up. Heck, if PRC’s are now selling at an average of $1800 per square foot that leaves a lot of room underneath for other product.
I did one of these fractions in Sunriver OR back in 1988-89. It’s a neat market. At times I wonder who really needs all the flash and dash of the uber-PRC? Of course, I say this as SRG is going three of them in sales!
Godsend this week: 18” of Sierra snow so Kirkwood can get a last shot at two skiing and selling weeks. As I landed in Salt Lake this AM, on the way back from Orlando, it was snowing, so Snowbird will be ecstatic, too. Durango is out of this snow pattern, and their season is all but over…a sub-par year for snow. Building continues at a great pace at Meriwether Ranch in Montana.
Next week I’ll be up in Minnesota, north of MSP, so if there’s a ‘burrr’ left I may get it.
I ran into two ‘old timers’ and ARDA stalwarts; Bill Ingersoll and his partner Stu Bloch. We compared our first ARDA/ALDA meetings. Stu and I were 1972 and Bill 1971, but heck, his father founded the organization! Are we in a rut or what?
Of worthy note, ARDA was at the Dolphin/Swan two years ago, and one of the bartenders swears he remembers some of us. Now, that’s an indelible impression.
Generally, the rooms are lousy, the elevators great, the concierge lousy, the food good and unlike Vegas [the other end of the alternate year switch] one can get out into the air humid as it might be.
I presented on a fractional panel dealing with mid-tier product vs. the PRC we all talk about so much. Congrats to the usually uninspired meetings committee for a very interesting topic and to John Sweeney, chair of the panel, for really excellent topics and questions. Geeze, I had to really think about what to say, which ended up in a self-serving white paper on them.
I shared the panel with Jeff Yamaguchi, ex MGM and now Global Resorts, and Dean Kneider of Intrrawest two really thoughtful pros. Dick Ragatz prodded us on as John Sweeney had a family illness and could not attend at the last minute. I think we made some sense…at least I know Jeff and Dean did.
The non-PRCs are really a fertile market and no one seems to pay much attention to them. Dick Ragatz defines them as selling for under $ik per square foot. To that I add regional locations, service levels and HOA fees to fit the buyer with family income of $150k vs. the PRC of $300k and up. Heck, if PRC’s are now selling at an average of $1800 per square foot that leaves a lot of room underneath for other product.
I did one of these fractions in Sunriver OR back in 1988-89. It’s a neat market. At times I wonder who really needs all the flash and dash of the uber-PRC? Of course, I say this as SRG is going three of them in sales!
Godsend this week: 18” of Sierra snow so Kirkwood can get a last shot at two skiing and selling weeks. As I landed in Salt Lake this AM, on the way back from Orlando, it was snowing, so Snowbird will be ecstatic, too. Durango is out of this snow pattern, and their season is all but over…a sub-par year for snow. Building continues at a great pace at Meriwether Ranch in Montana.
Next week I’ll be up in Minnesota, north of MSP, so if there’s a ‘burrr’ left I may get it.
Saturday, March 10, 2007
Saturday, March 10, 2007
Big week: Ragatz Fractional Conference + Mt Superior Club, Snowbird UT.
The 7th Ragatz conference…tension between the North Course [RCI] guys who were shut out as they used to own Ragatz, and open arms to Interval International, who used to be shut out as competitive to RCI. The guard changes.
That said; sell out crowd of over 500 attendees. Almost too big to work the crowd effectively. Lots of new faces - where do they all come from?
Big topic for me was all the mini developers who are planning to do homes, one -off to three to colonies of them. Must have been 15 I met or heard ask questions. Probably many more.
Unanswered: how to manage them and will buyers buy with so few interests and homes?
Also, some statements of, 'forget the intensive service' out buyers just want a second home. Interesting if that comes true with sales?
The Flags keep expanding. Ritz, Fairmont, St. Regis and Intrawest can't get product to market fast enough. They are real believers.
The role of the independent? Unlimited with superb location and smaller projects that the Flags can't afford to develop.
A semi surprise to me on Ragatz's survey results on price per square foot for 3 beds at $1,516 and 4 beds at $1,803. Does this include Little Nel in Aspen? Did not ask. But, kinda puts perspective to our $2000 per square at Mt. Superior Club at Snowbird at being 'so high'
Later in the week at Snowbird. We had a buyer come in a take 'one of each' comprised of a 3 bed, 4 bed both 8ths and a 1/4th 3 bed and ¼ 4 bed each at over $1,3 million. That's the kind of buyer we like!.
Back to Ragatz, good to see some ULI types there bridging the gap between the large mixed use developers and the single site fractional developers.
The business is hot out there!
Big week: Ragatz Fractional Conference + Mt Superior Club, Snowbird UT.
The 7th Ragatz conference…tension between the North Course [RCI] guys who were shut out as they used to own Ragatz, and open arms to Interval International, who used to be shut out as competitive to RCI. The guard changes.
That said; sell out crowd of over 500 attendees. Almost too big to work the crowd effectively. Lots of new faces - where do they all come from?
Big topic for me was all the mini developers who are planning to do homes, one -off to three to colonies of them. Must have been 15 I met or heard ask questions. Probably many more.
Unanswered: how to manage them and will buyers buy with so few interests and homes?
Also, some statements of, 'forget the intensive service' out buyers just want a second home. Interesting if that comes true with sales?
The Flags keep expanding. Ritz, Fairmont, St. Regis and Intrawest can't get product to market fast enough. They are real believers.
The role of the independent? Unlimited with superb location and smaller projects that the Flags can't afford to develop.
A semi surprise to me on Ragatz's survey results on price per square foot for 3 beds at $1,516 and 4 beds at $1,803. Does this include Little Nel in Aspen? Did not ask. But, kinda puts perspective to our $2000 per square at Mt. Superior Club at Snowbird at being 'so high'
Later in the week at Snowbird. We had a buyer come in a take 'one of each' comprised of a 3 bed, 4 bed both 8ths and a 1/4th 3 bed and ¼ 4 bed each at over $1,3 million. That's the kind of buyer we like!.
Back to Ragatz, good to see some ULI types there bridging the gap between the large mixed use developers and the single site fractional developers.
The business is hot out there!
Saturday, February 10, 2007
This past week SRG brought to HQ the sales managers for all the fractional projects it is selling: Mt. Superior Residence Club, Snowbird UT, Expedition Lodge, Kirkwood CA, Meriwether Ranch, Melrose MT and Purgatory Lodge/The Pinnacles, Durango CO,
The daylong training meeting headlined Bill Orwig; the most experienced fractional sales exec in the World. Beginning with the Deer Valley Club up through and to the Mt. Superior Residence Club at Snowbird, Bill represents the
The whole history of PRCs and how they are best presented and sold.
Needless to say this was a vastly rewarding experience. Now, the site sales figures need to reflect the investment in taking a day during the selling season to hone skills.
I believe I have failed to spotlight the fact that Ron Frank, RRP joined SRG as its Corporate Vice President of Sales in December. With over 25 years in the shared ownership business Ron has made effective selling his life’s work. SRG is very fortunate to have Ron come aboard after completing stints in Vancouver BC, Breckenridge and with Sunterra.
SRG has always had good sales skills within its core team, but the addition of Ron keeps us head and shoulders above our competition, and most importantly delivers sales to the projects in which we are involved.
Melding marketing to sales in a ski resort has been an extraordinary challenge to SRG these past months as three of the projects we are marketing and selling are in ski locations. The time sensitivity of the diminishing days in a ski season as reflected in the production of project materials and site sales tools cannot be ignored. Honestly, we have been late in our assignments are now racing to catch up, so our sales staffs have the leads in hand to make their sales goals.
This key area of project development has not been focused on enough at industry meetings. Behind all the ‘happy talk’ is reality; the reality that when the lifts close new winter customers will not come for another eight months.
Our team is strong and dedicated to our assignments and to success. Our legs and lungs are burning, but we will finish strong.
Thanks for reading….
The daylong training meeting headlined Bill Orwig; the most experienced fractional sales exec in the World. Beginning with the Deer Valley Club up through and to the Mt. Superior Residence Club at Snowbird, Bill represents the
The whole history of PRCs and how they are best presented and sold.
Needless to say this was a vastly rewarding experience. Now, the site sales figures need to reflect the investment in taking a day during the selling season to hone skills.
I believe I have failed to spotlight the fact that Ron Frank, RRP joined SRG as its Corporate Vice President of Sales in December. With over 25 years in the shared ownership business Ron has made effective selling his life’s work. SRG is very fortunate to have Ron come aboard after completing stints in Vancouver BC, Breckenridge and with Sunterra.
SRG has always had good sales skills within its core team, but the addition of Ron keeps us head and shoulders above our competition, and most importantly delivers sales to the projects in which we are involved.
Melding marketing to sales in a ski resort has been an extraordinary challenge to SRG these past months as three of the projects we are marketing and selling are in ski locations. The time sensitivity of the diminishing days in a ski season as reflected in the production of project materials and site sales tools cannot be ignored. Honestly, we have been late in our assignments are now racing to catch up, so our sales staffs have the leads in hand to make their sales goals.
This key area of project development has not been focused on enough at industry meetings. Behind all the ‘happy talk’ is reality; the reality that when the lifts close new winter customers will not come for another eight months.
Our team is strong and dedicated to our assignments and to success. Our legs and lungs are burning, but we will finish strong.
Thanks for reading….
Friday, January 12, 2007
It's January 12th, and I'm in New York City at my Manhattan Club. We began searching for the right building in 1992 and got into full planning in 1995 and pre sales in 1996. Sold out now of the original 242 suites. Then last year additional and more luxury suites were built in the penthouse, which were sold to the original owners. Now on the sales floor luxury studios are being built. Talk about maximizing a building as the sales demand has been so strong over these years.
Kudos go to Scott Lager and his development team to keep the inventory in synch with sales over the past decade. Also, more kudos go the property management team of Josh Wirshba, Sal Real and Vince Caster, and their departmental managers, for running a first class property at 90% occupancy with daily use. That's a real challenge, and they've done a superior job at their jobs. Josh began as head of HR at the hotel before the conversion, and Sal was an assistant GM of the hotel.
I've received many notes of support to my recent release on the continued dangers of 'guaranteed use' with the destination clubs and hybrid fractional projects. There is no reality to 'guaranteed use' and all buyers should beware of any company offering that.
We issued another release yesterday in a Q and A format to assist buyers in assessing a purchase of a fractional interest.
I'm seeing more innovations in use plans offering some fixed use based on the highly successful Old Greenwood model. Bill Fiveash, and his team, was very, very original in that use plan, and they deserve credit to advance the whole area of use plans. We've always said that the use plan, or the reservation plan, is the central focus of the fractional product. Much overlooked and mis-understood, the correct use plan goes a long way to ensure success. The opposite is also true.
Initial response to reservations at Snowbird's Mt. Superior Club have been excellent in the $2000 per square foot band.
Don't forget the Ragatz Conference coming up in March.
Kudos go to Scott Lager and his development team to keep the inventory in synch with sales over the past decade. Also, more kudos go the property management team of Josh Wirshba, Sal Real and Vince Caster, and their departmental managers, for running a first class property at 90% occupancy with daily use. That's a real challenge, and they've done a superior job at their jobs. Josh began as head of HR at the hotel before the conversion, and Sal was an assistant GM of the hotel.
I've received many notes of support to my recent release on the continued dangers of 'guaranteed use' with the destination clubs and hybrid fractional projects. There is no reality to 'guaranteed use' and all buyers should beware of any company offering that.
We issued another release yesterday in a Q and A format to assist buyers in assessing a purchase of a fractional interest.
I'm seeing more innovations in use plans offering some fixed use based on the highly successful Old Greenwood model. Bill Fiveash, and his team, was very, very original in that use plan, and they deserve credit to advance the whole area of use plans. We've always said that the use plan, or the reservation plan, is the central focus of the fractional product. Much overlooked and mis-understood, the correct use plan goes a long way to ensure success. The opposite is also true.
Initial response to reservations at Snowbird's Mt. Superior Club have been excellent in the $2000 per square foot band.
Don't forget the Ragatz Conference coming up in March.
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